what to ask plumber about scope of work remodel bathroom
Plumbing Pitfalls for Bathroom Remodels
First contractors often make the mistake of pumping up a customer'southward early on expectations, only to discover unresolved problems and problems afterward that cause the price of the task to modify, nigh often in a northerly direction. This is particularly true of bathroom remodels, where much of the work is hidden behind walls and nether floors, and where the number and variety of production choices is overwhelming.
To avoid problems, it's important that during the initial site visit you work through a of the common problems that typically plague bathroom remodels, especially when information technology comes to investigating existing piping and fixtures. Until you're comfortable with this kind of detective work, ask your plumbing sub to visit the site with you. You'll look like a hero to your client if you lot underpromise and overdeliver, and your plumber will be a lot happier if, before saying "No trouble, my plumber can practice that," you actually talk to your plumber about "that."
This article deals with those bath remodeling pitfalls that, if overlooked at the outset, are most likely to rear their ugly heads before the job is finished.
Filibuster Pricing Discussions
In the want to become the work, many contractors will readily quote a price or toll range for a bathroom remodel without knowing whatsoever of the details. In most cases, the homeowner envisions a Ferrari while the contractor is pricing a Fiat, and once these unrealistic expectations are set, they are hard to disengage. As negotiations grow more than serious and the chore specs begin to accept shape, contractors start backpedaling with excuses about "hidden conditions" or expensive fixture "upgrades." Alternatively, they wait until the job has started and try to make upwards the shortfall by overcharging for change orders. In the worst cases, the contractor simply walks away from the work. All of these options leave the homeowner with a low regard for contractors — all contractors.
To avoid being lumped in with "all contractors," never provide a quote or give an estimate of any sort unless you are sure that you can and will do the work for that corporeality. Salve your ballpark estimates until later on you take thoroughly inspected the job and you know all of the specifics.
Sometime Pipes Never Die
The historic period of the existing plumbing will greatly touch the cost of the upgrade work. Many cast-iron bleed systems are on their last legs, merely because cast atomic number 26 comes in varying grades, its deteriorated condition may not be obvious. Cast iron rots from the inside out, and then it may expect okay only really have very thin walls that could neglect at any time. Tap the pipe somewhere other than the hubs with a steel wrench or heavy screwdriver: A change in tone frequently indicates either a buildup of solids within the pipe or sparse walls acquired by corrosion. In either case, the pipe may need to exist repaired or replaced.
Galvanized pipes are normally ready for replacement when the bathroom is ready for updating. Plan on replacing the entire pipage run, because old threaded galvanized pipe joints are normally frozen tight from corrosion and can't be disassembled without breaking. If the customer insists on tying into the old galvanized pipe, strongly consider passing upwards the task: The potential problems can far outweigh the benefits of saving the pipe.
Copper supply lines tin can likewise fool you. In some areas of the country, mineral deposits from difficult water will crusade copper lines to corrode from the inside out, much similar bandage fe and galvanized pipe. This is especially true if sparse-wall (type-M) copper tubing was used. Corrosion may, withal, exist visible at soldered joints.
Plastic water-supply pipe presents unlike problems. Polybutylene pipe has been banned for years in almost areas of the country, merely you may find existing installations that are yet in apply. In this instance, your plumber will know whether lawmaking requires this piping to be replaced. Newer systems plumbed with cantankerous-linked polyethylene (PEX) should pass muster, but make sure your plumber has the tools and expertise needed to work with this relatively new cloth.
Liability. Regardless of the kind of pipe yous discover, keep in mind your potential liabilities. Obviously, when you replace the unabridged system, you are responsible for any leaks in the pipage. But when you necktie into an existing plumbing system, your potential liability escalates essentially. Heating joints and twisting fittings may well crusade bug upstream or downstream, problems which may non be readily apparent and that could crusade leaks to turn up long after you've left the job. If any of those leaks cause damage, y'all'll be the commencement one the homeowner turns to for compensation.
Pressure level-testing new piping volition provide you with some peace of mind, just testing is far from foolproof, specially when new plumbing ties into old. When you've got doubts about the condition of the existing plumbing, the best solution is not to do the work. Since that may non always be possible, include a clause in your contract that generally limits your liability for damage resulting from a leak or other piping problem not immediately adjacent to your piece of work. You should also set and accept your client sign a split up certificate clearly stating that, where you are tying into existing work at the request of the customer and you have brash against such action, you volition not exist liable for any leaks or damage non occurring at your work points. Rent a lawyer to draft these provisions for you lot; non every state allows for such clauses, nor does every country allow you to limit your amercement without another restrictive or informative language. A good lawyer can suggest you on the proper grade of action, and the cost will be less than the cost of defending a lawsuit.
Think, though, that all the newspaper in the earth will not enhance your professional person reputation or endear you lot to an unhappy customer when a fixture leaks or a articulation fails. You need to be clear with customers about the risks of using old pipes. Seeing is assertive: The most convincing argument is to show them the congenital-upward corrosion and sediment from a section of corroded pipe that you've removed from a home like to theirs.
Fixtures
If a tub unit of measurement is to be replaced, the major trouble spots will be access to the drain and supply lines; the tub itself shouldn't present many problems. Recall, though, that a cast-iron tub is very heavy. Breaking it upward may be the only applied style to get the quondam tub out of the bathroom. Fiberglass and steel tubs tin can oft be removed in one piece, unless they are oversize.
Occasionally, the homeowner wants to relieve the tub, either because of its antique value, or because cousin Bob wants it for his ain remodeling project. Even if the tub can exist moved in one slice, make certain information technology will fit through the doorway and downward the hall and stairs. It's non unusual for tubs, particularly modern whirlpool units, to have been surrounded by framing afterwards the tub was set; sometimes tubs are lifted into identify with a crane or boom along with upper-story framing materials. Where this has happened, be certain that the customer accepts the hazard that the tub may have to be destroyed to exist removed.
Getting the old tub out is one thing; getting the new tub in means making sure it will fit into the existing space and that information technology will clear all obstacles. The only way to know is to take your client decide on the specific tub before you agree to the piece of work. In fact, yous should accept the correct measurements for the tub they want in hand as you make your initial site review. If you have to remove the door trim and frame to proceeds necessary inches, information technology could get expensive, and somebody (preferably the homeowner) has to pay for the piece of work.
Sinks and vanities. Removing existing sinks and vanities is generally straightforward. You may run into problems with pipe sizes and corroded fittings that require different or actress fittings than are chosen for "by the book." You may likewise observe that the necessary vent is missing, a problem when the original scope of work does non involve gutting the space.
Some other trouble to look out for is a sink, either purchased or specced by the homeowner, that might not fit into an existing cabinet. This can happen whether the sink comes from a home improvement center or a specialty shop. Whether the solution is a dissimilar sink or a new chiffonier, the cost should exist included in your estimate.
Too inspect the supply tubes and fittings nether the sink. Frequently, the shutoffs are frozen open, making replacement more difficult, peculiarly if there is no primary shutoff for the whole fixture grouping. Again, remember that disturbing old and corroded fittings can crusade problems downwardly the line. When in doubt, plan on replacing the supplies.
Color friction match. One nice affair virtually white fixtures is that you can e'er friction match the color. Designer colors, on the other mitt, seem to modify about every five years or so, and matching a five-year-old color may exist hard at best and impossible at worst. Be certain that customers who are concerned nearly consistent fixture colour are willing to replace all of the fixtures. If you can't be sure of the need or desire to supplant the fixtures before the job starts, use a fixture allowance and explain that the terminal cost volition exist determined by the fixture selection.
Stall Showers
The biggest problem here is subsurface water harm. Leaking shower valves and pans can cause tremendous damage to the structure, almost all of which may be subconscious until the fixture is removed. You need to exist clear with your customer near the potential for actress costs in the consequence structural repairs are needed.
If the shower is going to exist rebuilt, be sure that the homeowner has selected the finish material for the shower floor and walls. This is especially of import with tile, because variations in thickness will bear upon crude openings and the stub-outs for faucets and diverters.
Finally, if the shower plumbing is being replaced, don't make the mistake of assuming your customers will be happy with "standard" rough-in heights. Instead, take them stand in the tub or shower space and tell yous at what tiptop they want the shower valve and head located. This is particularly useful with taller people, or with couples who differ profoundly in height. Be certain that they are standing at the floor level of the tub or shower, non directly on the subfloor, since the deviation can be 3 or 4 inches.
Crawlspaces
Declining to audit the crawlspace can lead to significant problems and boosted expense. Most crawlspaces are dark and damp, and are accessible only with difficulty.
Headroom. While near codes crave a minimum of xviii inches of crawlspace headroom, in practice many crawlspaces are much smaller. You lot may be willing to put up with this if you have to piece of work only at i corner of a building, simply if you have to run lines from one end of the edifice to the other, you may have to increment your working room with shallow trenches. Hand-digging a crawlspace is hard piece of work, then you need to exist certain that the customer understands that the prep piece of work is part of the nib.
Admission. While you are inspecting the crawlspace, also make up one's mind if yous can gain admission to each of the areas where you demand to work. In many cases, grade beams, retaining walls, and retrofitted support walls impede or close off big areas of a crawlspace, and you will accept to cut access holes in the floor to reach these areas. Include the price of this work in your price, and be sure to specify who volition repair the floor once y'all are washed with your work.
H2o and light. A damp crawlspace is an uncomfortable identify to work. You may need to lay down plastic sheeting or fifty-fifty build wooden catwalks to go along yourself and your materials and tools dry out. More than ane plumber, working a very night crawlspace, has found himself 80 anxiety from the entrance when he tugged on his piece of work light and disconnected it. Some plumbers notice it useful to install "string lights" or other types of temporary lighting when they plan to work in a crawlspace for more than than a few hours.
Upper Floors
A limiting factor in any remodeling projection is the joist depth of upper floors. Many older buildings have relatively shallow floor joists into which pipe, many times quondam pb pipes, have been tightly stuffed. These "creative" configurations may be hard to disassemble. Moreover, getting new drain lines into the same cramped infinite may exist hard or impossible. To complicate the problem, modern codes — not to mention good sense — may restrict your ability to cut away or modify joists sufficiently to allow for easy installations.
Similarly, concealed supply and drain lines can exist counted on to throw a wrench into the works, direct affecting the budget. You need to await at places where notching and drilling may exist necessary to decide what is in the way and how yous tin can perform your work with minimal waste and damage. You might consider purchasing one of the new electronic testers to locate concealed piping and wiring. These devices are readily available and are now reasonably priced; if you lot practice a lot of remodeling, they are a worthwhile investment.
Walls and Floors
Vent sizing requirements may have changed since the construction was built, or the vents may have to be upgraded due to the addition of new fixtures and appliances. Similarly, code restrictions against cut top and lesser plates may go far impossible to run a three-inch stack in a 3-1/2-inch wall, and furring out the wall may not be feasible.
Too, remember that while it may be easier to run supply lines straight up an exterior wall crenel, the presence of existing insulation or the need for added insulation may preclude using that route. This is more of a problem in the northern states and other areas where energy conservation is paramount.
Be sure to verify the flooring joist spacing. If a tile floor is being considered, include the expense of having to add joists to strengthen the floor. If it appears necessary to build upwards the subfloor, figure out how you will handle the threshold, which can exist both ugly and dangerous if it'due south too loftier.
Thanks to plumber Randy Teets and builder Carl Hagstrom, both of Montrose, Pa., for aid with this article.
This article has been provided past www.jlconline.com. JLC-Online is produced by the editors and publishers of The Periodical of Calorie-free Structure, a monthly mag serving residential and calorie-free-commercial builders, remodelers, designers, and other merchandise professionals.
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